June 22, 1977, Vrndavana
Prabhupada: Where are others?
Tamala Krsna: Shall I get other people? Satadhanya Maharaja? (long pause)
Prabhupada: That... Find this verse, munayah sadhu prsto 'ham... [SB 1.2.5].
Tamala Krsna: There 's no index. It 's not a new Bhagavatam. There 's no index in this Bhagavatam. Munayah sadhu...? "The Effects of Kali-yuga" chapter? Is that the verse, about the effects of Kali-yuga? No. (background talking, looking for verse) munayah sadhu prsto 'ham bhavadbhir loka-mangalam yat krtah krsna-samprasno yenatma suprasidati [SB 1.2.5] "munayah-of the sages; sadhu-this is relevant; prstah-questioned; aham..."
Prabhupada: No? What is that? Sadhu? What is that? Munayah?
Tamala Krsna: Says, "sadhu-this is relevant."
Tamala Krsna: That 's what it 's translated as, "this is relevant." May be a mistake.
Devotee (1): It 's a mistake.
Tamala Krsna: "Munayah-of the sages; sadhu-this is relevant..."
Prabhupada: The nonsense, they are... They are correcting my trans... Rascal. Who has done this? Munayah is addressing all these munis.
Tamala Krsna: It 's addressing the munis?
Tamala Krsna: Sadhus, great sages.
Prabhupada: Yes. Sadhu means they are very pure. What can be done if it goes there and these rascals becomes Sanskrit scholar and do everything nonsense? One Sanskrit scholar strayed, that rascal... He take... What is his...? Saci-suta? Saci-sandana?
Tamala Krsna: Jaya-sacinandana?
Prabhupada: And they are maintaining them. Different meaning.
Tamala Krsna: "Bhavadbhih-by all of you; loka-the world; mangalam- welfare; yat-because; krtah-made; krsna-the Personality of Godhead; samprasnah-relevant question; yena-by which; atma- self; suprasidati-completely pleased." Translation: "O sages..."
Prabhupada: Now here is "O sages," and the word meaning is "of the munis." Just see. Such a rascal Sanskrit scholar. Here it is addressed, sambodhana, and they touch(?) it-"munayah-of the munis." It is very risky to give to them for editorial direction. Little learning is dangerous. However proper Sanskrit scholar, little learning, dangerous. Immediately they become very big scholars, high salaried, and write all nonsense. Who they are? (pause) Then?
Tamala Krsna: "O sages, I have been..."
Prabhupada: No, they cannot be reliable. They can do more harm. Just see here the fun(?).
Tamala Krsna: Yeah. We're finding out in the Fifth Canto that there are words that are so off, the meaning is completely changed, completely changed. I mean, in the three chapters that we read, Bhakti-prema Maharaja made at least half a dozen corrections of serious corrections. They had changed the meaning.
Svarüpa Damodara: Some of the mistakes in the numbers, the figures.
Tamala Krsna: Oh, yeah, they 're all...
Prabhupada: So how they can be reliable, so-called, this way...? (background whispering) Hm?
Yasoda-nandana: In the Gurukula we were teaching Isopanisad class to the children. So we took... [break] ...Prabhupada and the words which the recent edition of the Press is wrong. Many changes were brought. They were trying to make better English, but sometimes, to make better English, I think they were making philosophical mistakes also. There is no so much need of making so much better English. Your English is sufficient. It is very clear, very simple. We have caught over 125 changes. They 're changing so many things. We are wondering if this is necessary. I will show you today. I have kept the book.
Prabhupada: I know that these rascals are doing. What can be done? How they can be relied on?
Svarüpa Damodara: It 's not the responsibility of the BBT trustee, to see these things don 't change without Prabhupada 's sanction?
Prabhupada: And Ramesvara is indulging this. The great rascal is that Jagannatha? He 's there in Los Angeles.
Tamala Krsna: Jagannatha dasa?
Indian devotee (2): Jagannatha-suta.
Tamala Krsna: No...
Prabhupada: And the one rascal is gone.
Tamala Krsna: Nitai.
Prabhupada: It is starting. What can I do? These cannot... These rascals cannot be educated. Dangerous. Little learning, dangerous. So how to correct? The leader of these dangerous-Radha-vallabha.
Tamala Krsna: Radha-vallabha?
Prabhupada: Hm. He 's a dangerous, who maintains these rascal with this work. He 'll always have questions and alteration. That is his business. That is American business. They take that always. What can I do? Ultimate, it goes for editorial. They make changes, such changes.
Tamala Krsna: Your original work that you 're doing now, that is edited by Jayadvaita. That 's the first editing.
Prabhupada: He is good.
Tamala Krsna: He is good. But then, after they print the books, they're going over. So when they reprint...
Prabhupada: So how to check this? How to stop this?
Tamala Krsna: They should not make any changes without consulting Jayadvaita.
Prabhupada: But they are doing without any authority.
Svarüpa Damodara: I think we should make whole survey, all books already printed, before printing the next batch and check any mistakes so that it should be all corrected. Otherwise, if the scholars find out that there are so many mistakes in the books, then the quality and the appreciation will be reduced.
Svarüpa Damodara: Yes. We find so far that they are appreciating so much within the scholarly circle, and we want to maintain that actually.
Prabhupada: Very serious feature. It is not possible for me to check, and they are doing all nonsense, freedom. (pause)
Yasoda-nandana: Jaya Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: What to do?
Tamala Krsna: I think Svarüpa Damodara 's point, that all the books should now be checked before they 're reprinted again... And they have to be checked not by some so-called learned Sanskrit man but by a learned devotee. Just like you always favored Jayadvaita because his Krsna consciousness...
Prabhupada: Jayadvaita, Satsvarüpa...
Yasoda-nandana: Bhakti-prema, Satsvarüpa is there.
Tamala Krsna: So Bhakti-prema... That's a good solution.
Tamala Krsna: You know, the real point is that the Sanskrit is often not translated properly in the translation, what Nitai and others have done.
Prabhupada: He 's a rascal. That 's... He 's finding out guru and job for filling the belly. That is the latest news.
Tamala Krsna: What is he doing?
Prabhupada: To find out some job to fill up the belly. Otherwise he 'll starve if he doesn 't get any job. And he 's finding out guru. Job-guru. Now do the needful. Otherwise everything will be spoiled. These rascal editorial... That Easy Journey, original, this (indistinct) Hayagriva has changed so many things.
Tamala Krsna: He actually took out the whole part about their going to the moon being childish. He deleted the whole section.
Yasoda-nandana: Also in the Bhagavatam, where Prabhupada was talking about Lord Buddha... You mentioned that if the followers of Lord Buddha do not close the slaughterhouse, there is no meaning to such a caricature. That word was very nice. But in new book that word is not there any more. They have pulled the word. The meaning of the word is not... So many times.
Prabhupada: It is very serious situation. Ramesvara is in direct...
Svarüpa Damodara: I think they 're working too independently without consulting properly.
Yasoda-nandana: Sometimes they appeal that "We can make better English," so they change like that, just like in the case of Isopaniñad. There are over a hundred changes. So where is the need? Your words are sufficient. The potency is there. When they change, it is something else.
Svarüpa Damodara: That 's actually a very dangerous mentality.
Yasoda-nandana: What is it going to be in five years? It 's going to be a different book.
Prabhupada: So you... What you are going... It is very serious situation. You write one letter that "Why you have made so many changes?" And whom to write? Who will care? All rascals are there. Write to Satsvarüpa that "This is the position. They are doing anything and everything at their whim." The next printing should be again to the original way.
Tamala Krsna: They should have a board of Satsvarüpa and Jayadvaita.
Tamala Krsna: Those two men are both in Los Angeles now.
Prabhupada: So write them immediately that "The rascal editors, they are doing havoc, and they are being maintained by Ramesvara and party."
Tamala Krsna: Sometimes there 's a fear that some word will be unpopular, and on account of desire to gain popularity or acceptance, they lessen the strength of the word. They change the word. They choose a word which is more so-called acceptable.
Svarüpa Damodara: Same thing is with the Back to Godhead. Just publish some photo, try to change so many things in order to make it popularized. They have been doing that even with the philosophy. (pause)
Satadhanya: I remember when Ramesvara was here, he had mentioned that in one article you had denounced the Christians strongly, so he said he left one part out because he was afraid there would be a bad reaction from the Christians in America.
Prabhupada: That is possible. That is possible. He should be careful. Then?
Tamala Krsna: I think in addition to Satsvarüpa and Jayadvaita checking the English, that Bhakti-prema Maharaja has to check all the Sanskrit of all of the books... He 's translating now, so as he 's translating, he can check. He 's going, starting from the First Canto.
Svarüpa Damodara: I think this is very appropriate, because checking English doesn 't have any meaning without checking the Sanskrit, the original.
Tamala Krsna: There was one verse in the Fifth Canto. From the way that they translated it, there was no way that anyone could possibly have understood what the verse meant. I mean, it was made unintelligible by the translation. So we were reading. Finally Bhakti-prema says, "Wait a minute. This translation is wrong. They have edited an extra statement here that is not there, and it makes it completely not understandable." Then suddenly, when he corrected the Sanskrit, it was easy to understand. It was very clear.
Prabhupada: So what to do?
Tamala Krsna: So I think we just have to be slow but sure. We have to go over all of the books and make sure that they 're perfect before they 're printed again. Not be in such a rush, print, print, and print all nonsense.
Svarüpa Damodara: One time I had a strong talk with Ramesvara Maharaja about our article for printing in the Back to Godhead. I didn 't want them to be printed in Back to Godhead because they made so many changes...
Prabhupada: Oh, he has dared to change yours also?
Svarüpa Damodara: Oh, yes. They change so many things in our article. And it was on the telephone. I was speaking to him in Atlanta from Los Angeles. And I told him that "This article should not be printed because they have made so many changes." And I didn 't like that. Then they answered that "It has already been offset, and BBT policy is always to be rushing. It 's always BBT policy." Then I told him that "If you sacrifice quality on the strength of rushing, then it is your business, but that 's not my way, so please don 't print it." But in any case, they have printed anyway that article. And we all had a bad reaction.
Prabhupada: So you bring this to Satsvarüpa. They cannot change anything.
Tamala Krsna: (indistinct)
Svarüpa Damodara: So we stopped writing article for Back to Godhead since then because...
Tamala Krsna: Now, I think, with Satsvarüpa there, you won 't have that problem of changing like that. He wrote a letter saying that one of his first things is that he will not change what is given there unless... He will not make changes.
Svarüpa Damodara: No, if they consult us, even with changing, that's all right. But they just edit here and there and cut it out, certain things. They 're changing the whole meaning. And that makes sometimes nonsense instead of making sense.
Prabhupada: So on the whole, these dangerous things are going on. How to check it?
Tamala Krsna: There has to be strong philosophical leaders who can check this, like Satsvarüpa and Jayadvaita.
Tamala Krsna: They have to also be included in the decisions of the BBT. It can 't simply be that managers make decisions.
Prabhupada: Yes. Without their sanction, there will be... Let them... These all rascals...
Svarüpa Damodara: One time in that article they made a change. Saying that, the whole Vaisnava philosophy became Mayavadi in that scientific article. So I told them that "You are better than..., a better (indistinct)." It all become Mayavadi, so it became all mad. That is why I strongly told them that "This shouldn 't be the way. If you want to change, you have to consult with those who are writers."
Prabhupada: So they are doing very freely and dangerously. And this rascal is always after change, Radha-vallabha. He 's a great rascal. (pause) Read.
Tamala Krsna: Translation: Previously all the great sages rendered service unto the Personality of Godhead due to His existence above the three modes of material nature. They worshiped Him to become free from material conditions and thus derive the ultimate benefit. Whoever follows such great authorities is also eligible for liberation from the material world. Purport: The purpose of performing religion is neither to profit by material gain nor to get the simple knowledge of discerning matter from spirit. The ultimate aim of religious performances is to release oneself from material bondage and regain the life of freedom in the transcendental world, where the Personality of Godhead is the Supreme Person. Laws of religion, therefore, are directly enacted by the Personality of Godhead, and except for the mahajanas, or the authorized agents of the Lord, no one knows the purpose of religion. There are twelve particular agents of the Lord who know the purpose of religion, and all of them render transcendental service unto Him. Persons who desire their own good may follow these mahajanas and thus attain the supreme benefit.
Tamala Krsna: Next verse?
Prabhupada: No. Yes. Here is... So this is the aim, that one should know Krsna. And the human life is meant for that purpose. That is the distinction between animal life and human life. Therefore the next verse is yato bhaktir adhoksaje. Find out.
Tamala Krsna: sa vai pumsah paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhoksaje ahaituky apratihata yayatma suprasidati [SB 1.2.6]
Prabhupada: So life is divided into two, that body and the soul. Actually the soul requires satisfaction. So unless the soul approaches Adhoksaja-adhoksaja means beyond the sense perception of bodily understanding-there is no possibility. So we can start later this chapter. Next verse?
Tamala Krsna: Translation?
Svarüpa Damodara: Next verse.
Tamala Krsna: Translation.
Prabhupada: No, no, no. Next verse.
Tamala Krsna: vasudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogah prayojitah janayaty asu vairagyam jnanam ca yad ahaitukam [SB 1.2.7]
Prabhupada: So this perfection can be achieved by direct devotional service to Vasudeva. Next verse?
Tamala Krsna: dharmah svanusthitah pumsam visvaksena-kathasu yah notpadayed yadi ratim srama eva hi kevalam [SB 1.2.8]
Prabhupada: So unless one comes to this position, to understand Vasudeva, whatever he is doing or occupational duty, that is waste of time. It is waste of time in this way, that the body will change, so whatever he has done in this life, body will change. So it is waste of time. After the change of the body, everything is finished. Srama eva hi kevalam.
Tamala Krsna: Next verse?
Tamala Krsna: dharmasya hy apavargyasya nartho 'rthayopakalpate narthasya dharmaikantasya kamo labhaya hi smrtah
Prabhupada: The dharma, artha, kama, moksa... Generally people take to religion for improving economic condition. It is going on. They go to the church: "O God, give us our daily bread." And they 'll go to the temple: "O mother Kali, give me this. O father Siva, give me this." So they take it for economic development, dharma. But that is is not the proper way. Dharmasya hy apavargyasya. Dharma should be executed for stopping this material condition of life, apavarga. Pavarga. This material life is pavarga. Pa means parisrama, hard labor. And pha means phena, so hard labor that foams comes. Pa, pha, ba. And still it is baffled, vyartha. Bha: and always fear. And ma means death. So pa, pha, ba, bha, ma. So dharma means to stop this pa, pha, ba, bha, ma.
Svarüpa Damodara: This is apa...?
Prabhupada: Varga. It is pa-varga. There are five vargas, ka-varga, ca-varga, and the pa-varga. Very scientific. A-pa-varga. And that is the meaning. But these rascals, they have taken to increase the pa-varga, that srama eva hi kevalam. The basic principle of dharma is wrong. Dharma is meant for stopping this pa-varga. And they are increasing this pa-varga. And the next word?
Tamala Krsna: kamasya nendriya-pritir labho jiveta yavata jivasya tattva-jijnasa nartho yas ceha karmabhih [SB 1.2.10]
Prabhupada: So then question will be that "If we do not get some economic facilities, so how we can live?" And that 's a fact. Therefore it is said here, dharmasya hi... No. What is that?
Tamala Krsna: Kamasya nendriya-pritir labho jiveta ... [SB 1.2.10].
Prabhupada: Yes. Kamasya, sense gratification, required, but not for sense gratification 's sake. It requires only for living comfortably. You try to make the economic development, that is all right. But they have taken simply for sense gratification. "I have got one car, and there must be another three cars for my children and wife." This is going on, kama, increasing. Economic development... You require some occupational duty for earning your livelihood... That is allowed. But why more and more, more, more, more? For that, they are making scientific research how to satisfy senses. So kamasya na indriya-pritih. You require some sense gratification not for the senses, but because you have got a bad bargain, this body, just to maintain it, not more than. That is varnasrama-dharma. So there are so many problems we have created. They do not understand. And this civilization are simply gratifying senses, so dangerous. And dehantara-praptih. And they create a position by very, very hard labor, and the body is changed. Then srama eva hi kevalam. What benefit you get? This life, you make a skyscraper building, three dozen cars, and next life, you become a dog. Then what is your profit? What do you gain? They do not gain anything. So that change of body is in nature 's hand. Karmana daiva-netrena. That is not in your hand. When the body will change, you cannot say, "No, no, I 'll not change," because that is not under your dictation. So is not simply waste of time?
Svarüpa Damodara: Yes. Bhagavata says so clearly, srama eva hi kevalam.
Prabhupada: These rascals, they do not understand. This is the position.
Tamala Krsna: Next verse?
Tamala Krsna: Vadanti tat tattva-vidas... [Bhag. 1.2.11].
Prabhupada: That 's all right. And therefore the civilization should be athato brahma jijnasa, simply to enquire about the Absolute Truth. And that is civilization. Now you can... Whatever little we have discussed, you can discuss now and close our book. How wrongly the whole civilization is carried on, how risky it is, that they do not know. Now, what the materialist has to say in this connection?
Satadhanya: They say everything is getting better.
Prabhupada: What is that better?
Yasoda-nandana: Well, a few hundred years ago there was no airplanes, no cars, no facilities...
Prabhupada: That 's all right, but when you become a dog next life, then what is your gain? You are not going to use this airplane. You have to make a rest in this car, in this seat. What you are going to do that about? Dehantara-praptih. Krsna says most authoritative statement and giving the example, dehino 'smin yatha dehe kaumaram... [Bg. 2.13]. So how you can check this dehantara?
Tamala Krsna: They argue that "We are getting people to live longer now than they used to live."
Prabhupada: After all, you 'll have to change. In a false platform, to live longer, is that very great profit?
Tamala Krsna: Well, as we improve material life...
Prabhupada: No, where is improved? You are going to be a dog, suppose. Where is your improvement?
Svarüpa Damodara: It 's an illusion.
Prabhupada: They lose.
Svarüpa Damodara: We are thinking that we are improving, but actually we are not solving the problems.
Satadhanya: You said the other day that if we analyze what the scientists have done, we will see that they have actually done nothing beneficial, no benefit. Whatever they have done has no benefit, simply some comfort of the body. But what benefit it has?
Prabhupada: Just like they have improved... A man is going to die. By oxygen, by other, other, he may live for a few minutes more. They say, "This is improvement."
Svarüpa Damodara: It 's creating more problems.
Tamala Krsna: When we read from the Fifth Canto the facility of life is so much better on other planets, anyway, so they can 't even begin to imitate that other higher material planets, what to speak of the spiritual...
Prabhupada: They do. Karmis do that. They want to go there after death. Therefore karma-kaëòa. By ritualistic ceremonies they want to be promoted. Ürdhvam gacchanti sattva-sthah. By improving the sattva-guna, you can go to higher planetary system.
Tamala Krsna: Would that be considered more intelligent than the gross...
Prabhupada: No. No. Because after all, you have to die. Ksine punye punar martya-lokam visanti. Again you have to come down.
Svarüpa Damodara: We have to tell them that "We cannot completely negate the scientific advancement. We cannot simply say that what you are all doing is nonsense." At the same time, we can bring out that "Yes, you are doing, making an attempt to find a solution or comfortable situation. It 's not possible," that "There must be something beyond. It 's not enough."
Prabhupada: And that is yato bhaktir adhoksaje. That is the first citing. There are two kinds of occupational duty. The one is inferior, going down, and other is superior, go back to home.
Svarüpa Damodara: Satisfaction of the soul, Srila Prabhupada just mentioned.
Svarüpa Damodara: So the Adhoksaje.
Prabhupada: Adhoksaje. Yato bhaktih. When you become a devotee, then you 'll go.
Svarüpa Damodara: That is required.
Prabhupada: That is the aim of life. So everything is explained in Srimad-Bhagavatam. And then these unfortunate rascals, they are distorting. What can I do? How to stop it?
Devotee (3): But they will argue, "Why should we accept that there will be a next life?"
Prabhupada: Rascal, why you are accepting old age? You are young man. You have to accept, become. Why you are accepting, rascal? Answer this.
Devotee (3): I don 't know.
Prabhupada: So then why do you talk nonsense? "Why shall I accept?" You have to accept, nonsense. That is the law of nature. Do you think you 'll not become an old man like me? "I 'll not accept." You have to accept. So what is the use of saying like that, foolish rascals?
Devotee (3): So they must accept that...
Prabhupada: They must accept. They have to accept.
Svarüpa Damodara: Oh, yes.
Prabhupada: You are all young men. Who wants to become an invalid man like me? With three men I have to walk. Nobody wants. But you have to accept. I did not like. But you have to accept, compulsory. What is the use of saying, "Why shall I accept?" You... "Why?" There is no question of "Why?" You have to. That is the control.
Tamala Krsna: They might argue that...
Prabhupada: What is the meaning of argue? I 'll beat you with shoes. You have to accept. What is the use of argument?
Svarüpa Damodara: Like a madman.
Prabhupada: That 's all. Nature will beat you with shoes. You have to accept.
Tamala Krsna: They 'll say, "We have seen old men, but we have never seen anyone change their body."
Prabhupada: This is not change? You are a young man; now you have become old. Then you have no eyes. You are blind. I was not a young man?
Devotee (3): But they will argue, "What is the necessary..."
Prabhupada: What is the use of argument? You have to change. You are going to be hanged. There is no argument. You must be hanged.
Devotee (3): But why a dog 's body?
Tamala Krsna: Yeah, why a dog 's body? We have seen that you became an old man from a young man, but we never saw a man become a dog.
Prabhupada: So you do not... You live. You go along with him. You 'll see. Change means that... That is their defect. The change... Change means you have to accept any change. You see or not see. Tatha dehantaram. Deha, the body, will change. You have got eight millions bodies. It can change to any one. There is no question of seeing. The suggestion is that you have to change. Now, in which body you are going to change, that you cannot see. So how you claim that "I cannot see"? That you cannot... There will be change. So how the change will take? Karmana daiva-netrena, by superior administration and by your karma.
Svarüpa Damodara: Subtle law.
Prabhupada: Subtle law.
Svarüpa Damodara: Beyond physical laws.
Prabhupada: Yes. No, physical law. Just like worm will change into butterfly. You can see.
Svarüpa Damodara: Science accepts that all the cells in human body changes completely in seven years.
Svarüpa Damodara: Every seven years...
Svarüpa Damodara: ...all change. So change is actually...
Prabhupada: So that change takes place according to your mentality. You are subtle thing, psychological. One man is thief. By change, he can become a saintly person. One man is saintly person; he becomes a thief. So that change, according to three qualities... Ürdhvam gacchanti sattva-sthah. You cannot ascertain immediately because you are changing from sattva-guna to rajo-guna, rajo-guna to tamo-guna. So how you can be ascertained? But there will be change. That is fixed. So we have to take this word change. So you cannot expect what changes. Are you going to be dog or hog or god? That will depend on your work. How you can expect to see, that "I do not see"? But that is not certain. There are 8,400,000 's of different types of change of body. But you have to change. Not that you have to become a dog. You can become a demigod. Ürdhvam gacchanti... But change is certain. So if change takes place, then where is your position? Whatever you have done-srama eva hi kevalam.
Yasoda-nandana: They will say, "We can perceive all the changes during this life. We agree..."
Prabhupada: And next life or this life, rascal...
Yasoda-nandana: "Because the last change, at death, the last transmigration to another body, because we cannot see according to our scientific experience..."
Prabhupada: So you die, what you will see? Your eyes are taken away. What you will see? You say, "I die." Then what you will see after death? A dead man has got eyes. Can he see?
Tamala Krsna: Then they say, "How have you seen, that you are telling us what will...?"
Prabhupada: Seen by intelligence. [break] We are accepting everything like that.
Devotee (3): So they will say, "We accept there is a change of bodies. So then life is simply changing bodies. There is no more than this, simply..."
Prabhupada: No, there is stoppage of change of body when you...
Devotee (3): How so?
Prabhupada: How you... How you know? You are a rascal. What do you know? You learn it. You are rascal. What you know? You become intelligent. Tad-vijnanartham sa gurum evabhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. You are a rascal. What do you know? The difficulty is that you are rascal; you want to take the position of a learned man. And that is your fault. You do not accept your position, that you are a rascal.
Devotee (3): So first we must...
Devotee (3): They must become a little humble.
Prabhupada: Yes. Tad viddhi pranipatena pariprasnena sevaya [Bg. 4.34].
Svarüpa Damodara: They must know that every knowledge-acquiring process requires certain conditions to be fulfilled in order to understand it, that those conditions have to be acquired. Otherwise it 's not possible.
Prabhupada: So that is the difficulty at the present... A rascal is arguing. What is the meaning of his argument? He 's a rascal. It has no meaning.
Devotee (3): All procrastination.
Prabhupada: So read Bhagavatam very seriously. Then your rascaldom will go. Lokasyajanato vidvams cakre satvata... All rascals, for their knowledge the Bhagavata was written. Müdho nabhijanati, mohito nabhijanati. The difficulty is a rascal is thinking himself as very advanced in knowledge. That is the difficulty.
Svarüpa Damodara: That is the trouble with the scientists.
Prabhupada: Yes. And they are creating greatest trouble.
Svarüpa Damodara: They think that the destiny of man lies in their hands. Sometimes they say like that.
Prabhupada: That is yes. A rascal can become intelligent man. That 's good. But without becoming intelligent, remaining rascal, they are living. Otherwise there is no hindrance. I may be rascal, but in future, I may be intelligent by education, by... That is not checked. But the difficulty is that he remains a rascal and claims to be intelligent. That is the difficulty. That is the difficulty. We don 't say that "Because you are rascal, you shall continue to remain a rascal." No. You become intelligent. Take advantage of intelligent person. But you remain a rascal and claim to be intelligent, and that is... They are doing. Little learning is dangerous. We say that don 't remain rascal. Tamaso ma: "Don 't remain in darkness." We say; we are canvassing. The Krsna consciousness movement is for that purpose, that "You are rascal, but don 't remain a rascal. Come to the light." Tamaso ma jyotir gama. That is our business. But this rascal, he 'll remain in rascaldom, and he will claim that "I am not." That is the difficulty. Take enlightenment. Bhagavata is there. Bhagavad-gita is there. And become intelligent. But don 't claim to be intelligent while you are on the rascal platform. That is not good. That is suicidal. So very carefully read Bhagavatam. Don 't continue to remain rascal. Then life is successful. This is the Western obstinacy. They want to remain in the rascal platform, and still they claim. Is it not?
Svarüpa Damodara: Yes.
Prabhupada: This theory that life comes from matter, it is not settled up. Still, they are getting Nobel Prize.
Tamala Krsna: Yeah.
Prabhupada: Just see.
Tamala Krsna: Big amount of money goes with that prize.
Svarüpa Damodara: Supported by all the...
Prabhupada: Another rascal. Andha yathandhaih. He 's a rascal, and he's appreciated by another rascal. This is going on.
Svarüpa Damodara: Even the government is behind this research. NASA and federal funding government, they spend billions of dollars on this research.
Prabhupada: Just see. Then what is the government? Another combination of rascals, that 's all. They have no knowledge.
Svarüpa Damodara: Some of them are also beginning to feel that...
Prabhupada: Yes, that must...
Svarüpa Damodara: ...there is something wrong...
Prabhupada: That must be.
Svarüpa Damodara: ...with the whole approach.
Prabhupada: That must be there.
Svarüpa Damodara: Like there is a physicist in Princeton. His name is Dyson, Freeman Dyson(?).
Prabhupada: That is inquisitive, jijnasu. That is there, a class of men, jijnasu. Catur-vidha bhajante mam sukrtinah. They are pious. "Actually what is the truth?" Jijnasu. And jnani. Two third class, fourth class, and two, first class, second class. The first class, second class, is jïnni jijnasu, and third class, fourth class, arto artharthi. They approach God. The third class, fourth class, those who are in need of money or in distress and seeking the favor of Krsna, they are third class, fourth class. And the jijnasu and jnani, they are first class, second class. Inquisitive, they want to know the truth. That is first class. Jijnasu-"What is that first class?" He is second class. And arto artharthi, he is in need. If he gets some money, then he forgets God. That 's all. His disease is cured. Then finished business. "O God, give us our bread." As soon as I get bread, then finished church.
Tamala Krsna: Sometimes people join our movement like that.
Prabhupada: Yes, that is the nature. But they are still pious because they have come to God. And those who are very, very miscreant, they, at any circumstance, they 'll never. Dog 's obstinacy. Na mam duskrtino müdhah prapadyante naradhamah [Bg. 7.15]. They are last class.
Svarüpa Damodara: Few years ago there was a German physicist Schroedinger(?). He wrote a book called What is Life? And he said life could be understood just like physics. Then this Freeman Dyson(?)... He 's a very renowned scientist in Princeton University. He gave a lecture in our university at Emory about few months ago. He was speaking about cosmic manifestations of the universe. And I asked a question about this Schroedinger 's(?) approach, saying that Schroedinger is a very well known and Nobel Prize-winning physicist. He stated that life could be understood in terms of physics and chemistry. I asked him, "What do you think about this approach?" His answer was "Schroedinger did not know at that time that the physics of modern science, especially quantum physics, cannot be explained without invoking consciousness." That means life is a different entity than normal physics and chemistry. So they are starting to realize, at least to some extent, that life could be completely different process than was planned about few years ago.
Prabhupada: So on the whole, they have not come to the platform to know about life. That's all right.
Devotees: Jaya Srila Prabhupada. (end)